Thomas Webb on David Hammons’s Untitled
In honor of the return of David Hammons’s Untitled flag (2004) to the building’s facade, and all the rights of freedom and liberty it hails, assistant curator Jayson Overby Jr. interviewed facilities maintenance technician Thomas Webb about his duties hoisting the flag for six years.
David Hammons, Untitled, 2004. Photo: © Albert Vecerka/ESTO
JAYSON OVERBY JR. In the years that you’ve done this, has there been a moment or a day that made you feel especially powerful putting up the flag?
THOMAS WEBB One day, somebody was walking by, looking up at the flag as I was putting it out. You could see a sense of pride on their face. And I’m from Brooklyn. I always shout “Brooklyn, Brooklyn,” but that day, seeing that, I’m like, “Harlem is a little bit different.” This flag gives people a sense of pride in themselves.
JO Would you say witnessing those folks’ reactions over the years shaped the impact of that work, too?
TW Yes, definitely. It made me look at it differently than just the red, black, and green. It’s like people are waiting to see the flag. If they don’t see the flag out, they’re thinking, “Where’s the flag?”
JO That takes me to when we put up the flagpole in October 2025. When you were out there, moving the flag out, I think about twenty or fifteen people were standing on the sidewalk, taking pictures, waiting. It was a signal that said, “We’re here, we’re coming, be ready.” That was the first time we had flown the flag in eight years. In understanding all of that, has that made you think about flags differently?What does a flag represent?
Photo: © Albert Vecerka/Esto
TW Well, that flag represents more than just Harlem. It represents a people. We don’t have a flag that we can identify with. But when people up here see David Hammons’s flag, I imagine they feel that they do.
JO It’s interesting you say that because the colors from this flag come from Marcus Garvey’s Universal Negro Improvement Association flag. This is a flag that was created in 1920, and the colors from the flag became adopted by Black folks across the country, across the world. Although Marcus Garvey is not with us, his presence remains with that flag. When folks come down 125th Street, when they see our flag, it goes back to what you said earlier, that’s our flag.
TW At the same time that you see this flag, you see the statue of Adam Clayton Powell Jr.
JO And his coat and jacket are blowing in the wind.
TW When the flag is waving, and you see the jacket waving, it’s the same flow. It feels right—an original feeling that doesn’t come by too much.